Episode 51: Unveiling the Matrix of Shame: A Journey Towards Authenticity
Dr. Ray Mitsch elucidates the complex and pervasive nature of shame, highlighting its profound impact on our identities and relationships. He posits that shame operates as a prison for the mind, threatening our sense of belonging and connection, which are inherently vital to our human experience. This episode endeavors to differentiate shame from guilt, emphasizing that while guilt pertains to our actions, shame fundamentally concerns our very being. Mitsch draws parallels between our struggles with shame and the metaphorical concept of the 'Matrix,' suggesting that many individuals remain unaware of their own entrapment in this psychological condition. As we delve into this discussion, we aim to uncover the mechanisms by which shame influences our lives and explore pathways toward authentic connection and personal empowerment.
Dr. Ray Mitsch, the host of The Outpost, addresses the profound and often misunderstood concept of shame, contrasting it with guilt, to illuminate the psychological and emotional bondage that many individuals experience. Through a thoughtful examination, Dr. Mitsch posits that while guilt is a response to actions deemed unethical or harmful, shame delves deeper into the essence of one's identity and self-worth. He emphasizes that shame often manifests as a prison of the mind, where individuals feel unworthy of connection and acceptance, thus perpetuating a cycle of isolation and self-loathing. The discussion draws parallels to the film 'The Matrix', wherein the protagonist Neo awakens to the stark truth of his existence, mirroring how individuals can become enslaved to their own perceptions of inadequacy. Dr. Mitsch's exploration urges listeners to confront these feelings, as he aims to provide a framework for understanding and ultimately overcoming the pervasive influence of shame in their lives.
Takeaways:
- Dr. Ray Mitsch emphasizes the importance of authenticity in bridging faith for those who feel disconnected.
- In this podcast, shame is discussed as a pervasive and powerful experience influencing our identity and relationships.
- The distinction between guilt and shame is crucial; guilt pertains to actions, while shame relates to one's essence as a person.
- Dr. Mitsch draws parallels between the Matrix and the concept of shame, illustrating how both represent a form of bondage.
- Understanding shame involves recognizing its impact on our sense of belonging and the threat of rejection that accompanies it.
- The podcast highlights the need for cultivating a vocabulary to articulate and address feelings of shame in our lives.
Links referenced in this episode:
- sgi-net.org
- @sgi_international (instagram)
- @stainedglassinternational (Facebook)
- @stainedglassinternational(LinkedIn)
- SGI PO Box 322, Eastlake, CO 80614
Transcript
Foreign welcome everybody, to the outpost.
Speaker A:I am Dr.
Speaker A:Ray Mitch, your host and residential resident commentator on life and living and a variety of other issues that are important to understand how we live well, how we flourish in the Outpost at this point in time.
Speaker A:The Outpost is a digital place where we're trying to build bridges back to faith for those people that have walked away or strengthen the bridges of faith that are already there.
Speaker A:And how do we do that?
Speaker A:Focusing on authenticity.
Speaker A:What you see is what you get kind of authenticity, Learning to trust and learning more about grace and being known.
Speaker A:And so what I want to do, what I've wanted to do in all of these times, is create this space where the doubters and the wounded and the confused and beat up and beat down, the bent bruised who feel like their lives are a disappointment to God, can feel accepted, perhaps by the things I have to say that are validating and allow them to the people that might be listening to feel seen.
Speaker A:But we want to be a place where people can meet the biblical Jesus not as they've been told he is, but as he is.
Speaker A:And I think that's contained in some of the issues and things that I am trying to talk about in this podcast.
Speaker A:So pull up a chair, get comfortable, relax.
Speaker A:And we want to talk about the issues that are the most important to us.
Speaker A:And one of the things that we have left off.
Speaker A:I had spent the time talking about grace and the power of grace last time, and I want to pivot to talk about the dark side that is at war with the things that we know about grace and what I talked about in previous episodes, episode 50 specifically.
Speaker A:And so what I want to talk about is shame.
Speaker A:And shame is a word that very few people.
Speaker A:Well, maybe let me put it this way.
Speaker A:There are many people who think they know what it is, but their usual understanding of it is pretty faulty.
Speaker A:And what it really comes right down to is that people most of the time think when I say shame, they hear guilt and shame.
Speaker A:And so we do something called conflating.
Speaker A:We put them together as if they are the same thing.
Speaker A:And in a lot of cases, I've sat through plenty of sermons where the pastor says guilt and shame as if they are the same and they aren't.
Speaker A:They really, really aren't.
Speaker A:And hopefully that will become more clear as I move along here.
Speaker A:So the thing I want to put in your head to be thinking about is a frame to understand the things I'm about to talk about.
Speaker A:And 25 years ago, I can't believe it's been this long actually 26 now there was a movie come out by the Wachowski brothers and it was entitled the Matrix.
Speaker A:And probably I think most people, most critics and people like that would say that the Matrix, the first one was the best one.
Speaker A:The other ones were I don't think is good.
Speaker A:I'm not a movie critic, I know what I like and what I don't like.
Speaker A:But the Matrix actually is actually a very, very powerful metaphor for the world in which we live that is very much connected to shame and how we think, how we live, how we relate, all of that.
Speaker A:And in one of the early parts of the movie the main character is Neo.
Speaker A:And the characters names are interesting in the movie.
Speaker A:They borrow parts, bits and pieces of it from actually scripture.
Speaker A:The device opposite from what we know in scripture, the actual ship that they float around in trying to find people to rescue them from the Matrix is called the Nebuchadnezzar, which we know from scripture was the conquering king of the Babylonians.
Speaker A:The captain of that ship is by the name of Morpheus, which in Greek lore and mythology Morpheus was the God of sleep and his sidekick or the person that Neo, the, the new person, the new one falls for is her name is Trinity.
Speaker A:And so the names are interesting.
Speaker A:I think they were very intentionally chosen even though the brothers are blatantly non Christian in their orientation.
Speaker A:But the thing I want to point your attention to is when Neo and Morpheus first meet.
Speaker A:Morpheus has a description of the Matrix and I wanted to explain it to you so that you have it in your mind in terms of what I'm going to be talking about.
Speaker A:Because he gets to meet Neo and he thinks that Neo is the one to free humanity from the Matrix.
Speaker A:But he says to him that the Matrix is a place of living, if you will, that and everyone is a slave, but they don't know that they are a slave.
Speaker A:And he says all I can do, he says to Neo, all I can do is offer you the truth.
Speaker A:And Neo says what truth?
Speaker A:And the truth is that you are a slave.
Speaker A:That you are born into bondage, into a prison of your mind for your mind.
Speaker A:And that's what he was offering to rescue him from.
Speaker A:Now the thing I would have you kind of latch onto here is that shame also offers us a prison in which we are the most safe and secure, but not connected at all.
Speaker A:And that's really what its power, where its power lies.
Speaker A:So when we finally get into a little further into the movie and Neo actually has the opportunity to see the world as it really is.
Speaker A:He comes back out of the Matrix and throws up promptly because it just makes him sick to see what the real world actually is that has been hidden from the people that are plugged into the Matrix.
Speaker A:And so there's a lot about our life and living and relationships that is very much plugged into what I would call a Matrix of shame.
Speaker A:And we're all born into it.
Speaker A:We're all born into this bondage, just as our parents and their parents and parents beyond have.
Speaker A:And you can take it all the way back to the very beginning of time in human history, in Adam and Eve, where we are told that in their sinless state, they were naked and unashamed, which is not an accident, I'm sure.
Speaker A:And then when they finally decide to be authorities unto themselves and not remain in relationship with God and they eat of the fruit, who knows what the fruit was?
Speaker A:All we know is that it was forbidden to them, which was the only thing that was forbidden to them in the garden.
Speaker A:And it formed the basis of their rebellion and independence from God.
Speaker A:And what we are next told is that they hid because they were ashamed.
Speaker A:They became aware of their nakedness, and they were ashamed.
Speaker A:And so we are all slaves in so many ways and into this prison in our minds.
Speaker A:And shame is the active ingredient to it.
Speaker A:It's not the only thing, but I think it's a very important one.
Speaker A:And that's what I want to introduce you to.
Speaker A:So what I'm gonna talk about over the next few episodes here is the context of contours of the Matrix of Shame, and begin to help you understand just how pervasive it really is.
Speaker A:And finally, why is it so comfortable to us?
Speaker A:And comfortable doesn't mean what you think it might mean, because comfortable doesn't mean that it feels good kind of comfortable.
Speaker A:It's comfort because it's knowable and it's predictable and it's understandable.
Speaker A:And I know the rules of engagement in it.
Speaker A:And so where I want to start is, how does shame, where does it get all its power from?
Speaker A:What is it that makes it so powerful?
Speaker A:And the first thing I have to identify is what does it threaten?
Speaker A:And ultimately, it threatens my sense of who I am, my identity, because it is connected to our identity.
Speaker A:It is not necessarily connected to our behavior.
Speaker A:And really, what it carries with it is a threat of rejection and disconnection.
Speaker A:And I think we all know that we have been designed for connection, for being in relationship.
Speaker A:It's our sense of belonging that is intrinsically part of us.
Speaker A:It Is the image of God in us to be relational and connected to people.
Speaker A:And so it is connected to our identity.
Speaker A:And that's why it's so powerful.
Speaker A:And that's why oftentimes we are so blind to it.
Speaker A:So it threatens our sense of belonging and tends to prompt us to feel alone or to feel cast out or to.
Speaker A:And the bottom line is we are rejected for our being but not our behavior.
Speaker A:And that's far more devastating.
Speaker A:I can be criticized for my behavior and I can change my behavior in a heartbeat.
Speaker A:I can change my behavior if I'm motivated, but I can't do very much about my being very quickly.
Speaker A:And so one of the biggest challenges and one of the biggest problems we have is in trying to address shame.
Speaker A:And what's going on in it is we don't have a vocabulary to understand it without the words.
Speaker A:Ultimately we can't describe it to anyone else.
Speaker A:We lack the ability to actually expose it without a vocabulary.
Speaker A:And again, some of it is just because our vocabulary is so muddled and so imprecise and vague around it.
Speaker A:And so the thing that I am foreshadowing is that the strategy for overcoming it is in exposing it.
Speaker A:And we'll get to that in a minute.
Speaker A:So without the words, we lack the ability to respond to it.
Speaker A:And all we can do ultimately is experience it.
Speaker A:And we really don't develop the ability to engage in any kind of healthy self monitoring or a critical awareness or self awareness around what is actually happening.
Speaker A:We just feel it, we just experience it and then we react and we react in very predictable ways.
Speaker A:At one point in time it was not predictable, but now it is almost programmed into us.
Speaker A:So its power comes from the attack on my being and my identity.
Speaker A:And part of the power that it has is we don't have words to describe it very well.
Speaker A:So you may be asking, so what is it then?
Speaker A:I mean, you've given me an idea of where it gets all its power, but what is it?
Speaker A:And probably the foremost writer on shame is Brene Brown.
Speaker A:And I think she is right on the money in terms of talking about this.
Speaker A:And she defines shame as this intensely painful feeling or experience of believing we are flawed and therefore unworthy of acceptance and belonging.
Speaker A:And the therefore is very important because that is the conclusion we make because we have this feeling of being so profoundly flawed and broken that we are now unworthy of acceptance or connection to people.
Speaker A:And so oftentimes, like I said earlier, is we conflate guilt and shame together.
Speaker A:And the one thing they have in Common is they are both based in self evaluation.
Speaker A:I'm still looking at myself and looking at the things that I do and evaluating it in some light.
Speaker A:Some light.
Speaker A:And so the thing to keep in mind and the distinction I think is important to keep in, keep in mind between these two things is guilt is connected to I did something bad.
Speaker A:But shame is I am bad.
Speaker A:So I can say I failed at a given task that I had, or I failed meeting the deadline, or I can with shame, I can define it and say I am just horrible, I am a failure.
Speaker A:And see, we talk in being terms in a lot of ways that we don't even catch or see.
Speaker A:And it happens on a regular basis.
Speaker A:So guilt is about our performance and I can adjust that and change that relatively easily.
Speaker A:It is comparing our actions and our behaviors against some kind of ethics or values or beliefs system of whatever sort.
Speaker A:So I can feel guilt and that will prompt me to usually change my behavior and I can change it relatively easily.
Speaker A:In Christian terms, I think the word guilt would be very much parallel to or even synonymous with the word that we use is being convicted by the Holy Spirit or being convicted in our hearts about something we said or did or the impact we had on someone.
Speaker A:And so guilt is about my performance, but shame is about my person.
Speaker A:And it can't, when we're talking about my person, my being, that can't be adjusted easily.
Speaker A:I mean, where do I start?
Speaker A:And so I can't change that very quickly.
Speaker A:And even if I embark on it, I don't know, I don't have any idea where to start.
Speaker A:And the other question is not how.
Speaker A:Cause that's usually where everybody goes is how do I do this?
Speaker A:But what's my target?
Speaker A:I mean, what am I shooting for here?
Speaker A:And the reality is shame is comparing my worth or value as a person against a mythical ideal or standard, a personhood.
Speaker A:And usually what that looks like is perfectionism.
Speaker A:I hold myself to a standard of perfection that is really impossible.
Speaker A:I was going to say virtually impossible, but it's really impossible.
Speaker A:It's not virtual.
Speaker A:And so we are more likely to gauge in the kind of behaviors that are self destructive and self punishing in response to shame.
Speaker A:What that means is it's not just, you know, having being in your typical thing.
Speaker A:Whatever comes to your mind about self destructive behaviors, right?
Speaker A:Whether that's self harm or an addiction or damaging relationships or any number of things like that.
Speaker A:But see, it also is sabotaging good in our lives that also is self destructive.
Speaker A:When I am in a good situation with a good person in terms of a relationship.
Speaker A:And I am always undermining it or sabotaging it to see if the person is going to finally come to their senses and see me as I am and leave, because that's exactly what I deserve.
Speaker A:And so shame is multifaceted.
Speaker A:It is a part of not only how we think, but how we see the world, how we frame our relationships, how we frame everything virtually.
Speaker A:And so the thing that comes out of this is either we will silence ourselves.
Speaker A:I don't want to say anything because after all, what I have to say is not that important anyway, because I'm not that important, or lashing out at other people and humiliating them.
Speaker A:And so shame is, like I said, is very pervasive.
Speaker A:It is about my person.
Speaker A:And remember, it's not just exposure that we're talking about here, it's the threat of exposure that is the problem.
Speaker A:Where the mask that we have so skillfully constructed so that people will interact with the mask but not with me gets pulled off and the judged and condemned parts of me get exposed.
Speaker A:And I'm seeing as I really am, of course, as I really am is from my perspective, not the other person's perspective.
Speaker A:Now the other thing about that is, going back to Rene Brown's definition is it's about being ostracized, it's being cast out, it's not being accepted, it's being disconnected.
Speaker A:And so it leads to a lot of self loathing.
Speaker A:And ultimately that self loathing leads us to.
Speaker A:And I understand why people don't want to be around me or they might hate me like I do.
Speaker A:And so shame has a pervasive effect.
Speaker A:There is the other thing to keep in mind in terms of how we experience it is there's a layering or a conflicting of competing social competition and community expectations.
Speaker A:We have, for example, who we should be, you know, and whether that's in who I should be in terms of my role or my work, or the things that I say or the language I use, or whatever that might be.
Speaker A:And there's an extra layer here even for people that are Christ followers, because we're held to this standard of Christlikeness or always being above reproach, or the fact that we are representing Jesus, which some authors would suggest that is part of the imago dei, the image of God in us.
Speaker A:So who we should be is part of that.
Speaker A:Another layer here is not only who we should be, whether men or women, but what we should be.
Speaker A:An example is be a good little girl or be A good little boy when we're young, or what is a real man, or what is masculine or what is feminine, or all of these things that are very much a part of what we should be.
Speaker A:And then finally, it's how we should be and behave is part of it as well.
Speaker A:What you'll notice in all of those, if you're listening carefully, is the word should.
Speaker A:And should oftentimes is a telltale word in our language that betrays the shame that we are working with.
Speaker A:And I don't think it's an accident.
Speaker A:I don't think it's intentional, but I don't think it's an accident that should and shame start with the same combination of letters sh.
Speaker A:And so we experience it as kind of a layering and a conflicting expectation of our behavior and things like that.
Speaker A:The bottom line is how we experience it is just flat out fear.
Speaker A:The reality is, is we are biologically, emotionally, spiritually, even cognitively wired for connection.
Speaker A:And we are highly sensitive to ridicule, of being diminished, of.
Speaker A:Of feeling flawed.
Speaker A:Of course, we probably bring that in with us that we're already feeling flawed.
Speaker A:And then we hear that in other people's comments and et cetera, or being exposed.
Speaker A:And that jeopardizes our connection and really a sense of being worthy of any acceptance at all.
Speaker A:So there's this interplay between what I conclude about myself and what I think other people are concluding about me.
Speaker A:And there's a huge connection between that because my tendency is to take what I think and believe about me and project that onto other people and then interact with them as if that is true and that's where they're coming from.
Speaker A:And I think there are lots of people that.
Speaker A:And I have seen it.
Speaker A:I certainly have seen it in the students that participate in my groups is they don't have anything to say because one, they don't think it's all that important, and two, they are sure that people will see what they have to say as they see it, and being highly, highly critical of it.
Speaker A:And so the fear component, it cannot be underestimated.
Speaker A:And fear has this.
Speaker A:It's one of the more primary emotions that we have.
Speaker A:And it kind of throws off all sorts of other behaviors, whether it's being defensive or whether it's being quiet and withdrawing, or whether it's expressing and having power over somebody, which we'll talk about in a minute here.
Speaker A:And so fear is that core that is very much a part of.
Speaker A:Related to the shame.
Speaker A:And that's why we don't leave it because I would rather have a known dragon than an unknown angel.
Speaker A:In other words, I would rather have a known slavery than the freedom that is being offered me because I don't know the rules of that engagement.
Speaker A:And I have to make choices about how I am going to be and how I am going to act and the conclusions that I make.
Speaker A:And I don't want to do it wrong.
Speaker A:And wrong is an interesting word to be attached to that, because wrong is connected to I am wrong.
Speaker A:I am on the verge of being ostracized and thrown out because I am so wrong.
Speaker A:And so the other aspect of this that I have to just highlight for you is something called a double bind.
Speaker A:And the double bind is a situation where the options are all very limited.
Speaker A:And no matter which option we choose, it exposes us to some kind of pain of some sort, a penalty of censure, of withdrawal, of disconnection, all of that.
Speaker A:And so it's usually contained in the phrase, which I'm sure you probably have heard before, and that is damned if I do and damned if I don't.
Speaker A:And that's part of it.
Speaker A:That is the double bind.
Speaker A:And ironically, many years ago, there was an operating theory in the world of psychopathology that posited the idea that double bind communications were at the core or the forefront of what would cause schizophrenia.
Speaker A:Now, we've come to learn a lot more about it since those days.
Speaker A:But the thing they would point to is families that would have double bind communications in them.
Speaker A:The person, the child usually is the one that is always caught in the double bind.
Speaker A:If I do it this way, I will get censured, I will get separations or withdrawal.
Speaker A:And if I do it the other way, somebody will be mad.
Speaker A:And that was always a part of it.
Speaker A:I will never forget the illustration I learned many years ago.
Speaker A:And it was basically a young man who was hospitalized for a psychotic break.
Speaker A:And he was under assessment to assess whether it was schizophrenia or not.
Speaker A:And his mom comes to visit him, and as she walks down the hallway, the nursing staff tells him, hey, your mom's here.
Speaker A:Why don't you go out and say hi?
Speaker A:And he walks toward her, and as they come close, he throws his arms around her and she stiffens.
Speaker A:And then he drops his arms and she steps back and says, why, son, don't you love your mother?
Speaker A:And see, there's a penalty for throwing his arms around her, and there's a penalty for dropping his arms and backing away.
Speaker A:And that is the double bind.
Speaker A:There are lots of our relationship and the communications in our relationships where we feel that double bind and it traps us because we feel like there's no way out.
Speaker A:And so I'm going to get punished either way.
Speaker A:And that is always a part of the powerlessness we feel in relationships like this.
Speaker A:And whether it's intended or not, it's still there, it's still operating.
Speaker A:And it's important aspect, I think, to the world of shame and what impact it has on us because it is very much hard to maintain our sense of power and agency, our ability to have an impact on the world around us when we're caught in this double bind.
Speaker A:So the other thing to keep in mind, and I probably will end on this point, is the whole idea of power.
Speaker A:Because shame traffics in the world of power and control, obviously.
Speaker A:And there are at least a couple different things that I want to highlight for you as far as power is concerned.
Speaker A:One is having power over somebody.
Speaker A:And really, in a lot of ways, this power over is probably the most insidious of them all.
Speaker A:Because there's a tendency for the person who's exercising this power over another person is I will define who you are and then I'll make you believe that that's your definition of it.
Speaker A:And in a lot of disrupted, dysfunctional relationships, that happens a lot.
Speaker A:And the person doesn't know how to get out of it because they feel trapped.
Speaker A:If they stay in it and keep working at it, they will remain connected, but they pay a penalty for being connected.
Speaker A:And if they move away, then of course they lose connection that way.
Speaker A:And so the only response really to reclaiming our personal power is to find a way to do that is to gain my power back.
Speaker A:Because the thing to keep in mind about personal power, it is the ability to act or produce an effect.
Speaker A:It's not power as in obliterating somebody.
Speaker A:It is what we call personal agency.
Speaker A:The thing to keep in mind is that power is unlimited.
Speaker A:This is not a zero sum game, so that if I have it, you don't.
Speaker A:We can both have personal power.
Speaker A:We can both maintain the ability to choose.
Speaker A:And it's important to understand that we are created in the context of relationships with other people.
Speaker A:It isn't necessary to take away anything from others to have our own.
Speaker A:It's just learning to assert our ability to choose.
Speaker A:But it requires three different things.
Speaker A:I have to be conscious of it, I have to make the choice to do it and then begin to make the changes that are necessary.
Speaker A:So when shame hits, what it tends to do is it hits and we experience it, but we don't identify it for what it is.
Speaker A:And that's that consciousness piece.
Speaker A:Because usually what we do is we experience feelings of confusion and anger and judgment and feeling like we really want to hide or escape.
Speaker A:And we're thrown into crisis mode where we quit thinking and we move to feeling and reacting.
Speaker A:And that's a key point here.
Speaker A:So when I reclaim my personal power, I now have the ability to choose for myself, even if somebody is not giving me that choice.
Speaker A:Choice and then begin to move toward the kind of change that I really need to make.
Speaker A:And that's true with us, with ourselves as well as us with other people.
Speaker A:And shame robs us of the ability to choose.
Speaker A:And it is the world of control and trades and all sorts of things that are related to it.
Speaker A:And that's exactly where I am going to pick up next week in talking about this.
Speaker A:This is one of these.
Speaker A:This is a concept, I will say, that is so underestimated and it is so much operating in the background of so many people and the things that they have to say and how we experience life and how we experience pretty much anything really.
Speaker A:And that is really has to be taken into account.
Speaker A:And that's why I'm taking the time to talk about this again.
Speaker A:This is the second iteration of talking about this again.
Speaker A:But what I want to develop next time is comfort doesn't mean like comfort going to a spa.
Speaker A:It's comfort because it is predictable and controllable and I know the rules of the road and I don't.
Speaker A:That way I can stay away from doing something wrong because if I do something wrong, I'm disconnected from people.
Speaker A:And that's all I want to cover tonight.
Speaker A:And that hopefully will prompt you enough to come back to the next episode that will be coming up in a couple of weeks here.
Speaker A:So sgi-net.org that is home for us, the SGI community.
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Speaker A:So that's about it.
Speaker A:That's all I have for you tonight.
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Speaker A:So thanks so much for joining me.
Speaker A:I really do appreciate your time to listen in.
Speaker A:I hope it's been encouraging.
Speaker A:Come back next time and we'll continue to talk about the comfort of shame.
Speaker A:And until then, love you later.
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